0:00:00.0 Speaker 1: The advice and informational content does not necessarily represent the views of Mother's Market and Kitchen. Mother's recommends consulting your health professional for your personal medical condition.

0:00:11.2 Kimberly King: Hello, I'm Kimberly King, and welcome to the Mother's Market Podcast. A show dedicated to the truth, beauty and goodness of the human condition. On today's episode, it's important to protect our skin year-round, but even more so in the summer months. But what type of sunscreen should we be using, and what makes them different? Find out the answers, and much more about how to take care of your skin and not get burned this summer.

0:00:35.6 KK: But first up, Caroline Duell is the founder and CEO of All Good based in Morro Bay, California. All Good makes premium botanical and organic body care products including Good Goop, mineral sunscreens, hand sanitisers and so much more. After years in the combined fields of emergency medicine, wilderness education and holistic healing, Caroline turned her farm-based self-making hobby into a business. All Good is certified B Corp, climate neutral, and a 1% for the Planet member. Caroline and her husband, Ryan Rich, All Good VP of sales can be found with their two young nature loving daughters on the family's organic fruit, herb, flower and vegetable farm. And we welcome Caroline to the Mother's Market Radio Show. How are you? What a fabulous intro. I love this.

0:01:22.6 Caroline Duell: Thank you so much... It such a pleasure to be here.

0:01:26.7 KK: Thanks. Tell me a little bit about... Or, tell our audience what your mission is, with your work. And obviously I'm seeing a passion here.

0:01:34.4 CD: So the vision for All Good is that people are inspired to live in balance with nature. And one of the ways that that shakes down is that we believe that through everyday use of body care products, things that we put on and in our body every day, it's an opportunity to reconnect with our surroundings. And so we provide people with products that are safe, super effective, really enjoyable to use. And then that they can feel good about using because they are made from really good ingredients.

0:02:00.9 KK: I love it. Timing is everything as well. Very relevant these days, especially with what we're reading in the news and probably something you've known for a long time. And today we're talking about our skin health, and especially during summer time and the importance of skin care. So what does skin care... Healthy skin care mean to you during the summer?

0:02:20.7 CD: Well, here in the Northern Hemisphere, the sun's higher in the sky, and so that's probably one of the primary concerns is just making sure that people are really careful to protect themselves from the sun. Still getting vitamin D, obviously. Exposure to the sun is good, but one of the recommendations, even dermatologist has is to cover up one's face and then allow for full exposure in the sun. But when we have prolonged sun exposure, it's really important to protect it. So I think summer skin care is about hydration and sun protection.

0:02:54.4 KK: That's great. So let's talk about your best advice or favourite pieces of advice for summer skin care. For your routine, what kinds of routines are you recommending?

0:03:04.3 CD: Well, my family is very active out in the sun almost all day most days. And so what we do as a family is make sure that we are well hydrated. We have good nutrition. We take our vitamin D, which is interesting. All this is kind of an indirect way to actually have a really important effect on the skin. But we come from a holistic approach. So I think that's really important for people to consider and to know. And then when it comes to actual skin care, keeping the skin hydrated is really important.

0:03:32.5 CD: So starting the day with a good moisturizer and then if there is gonna be some exposure for us, we like to make sure we protect ourselves with sunscreen, an SPF 30 mineral-based sunscreen, particularly on the face and the neck, back of the hands, and then the rest of the body anywhere that's exposed. And ideally, one would cover up with a hat and or a long sleeves as well. And then just use SPF products on the face and back of the hands, and anywhere that's really getting continually exposed.

0:04:07.2 KK: So you bring up a good point about the SPF 30. Can you talk just... I'm interjecting this in here right now, is there... Can you tell me a little bit about the numbers and how important that is...

0:04:17.4 CD: Sure.

0:04:18.3 KK: With the SPFs?

0:04:18.4 CD: Yeah, SPF is a sun protection factor. And it's basically a rating that gives you a level of how much protection your skin is getting from the sun. And it generally relates to the UVA rays... I mean the UVB rays... And I know we'll go into that. But an SPF 30 is about a 97% protection from the harmful rays. And so that's an interesting thing that I think is really important for people to understand is more or a bigger number is not necessarily better. Because the protection that you get from an actual lotion or covering your skin is gonna tap out at about SPF 50, that's a 98% and potentially a little bit higher than 98% protection. But after that, we could see on a chart that it literally just goes flat.

0:05:12.6 CD: So the FDA has actually recognised that and rewritten their monograph to really talk about the importance of SPF 30, SPF 50. SPF 15 is kind of a baseline. But for sensitive skin or for longer... Or for higher elevation or water or more exposure, SPF 30 or 50, are a good way to go.

0:05:34.6 KK: Thank you, that's really interesting. And it's interesting to hear the FDA has recognised that now as well. How does summer skin care relate, or differ from skin care, the rest of the year? And I would imagine it depends on where you are...

0:05:48.8 CD: Yeah, absolutely it depends on the climate and one's exposure. But the rest of the year is more about extreme weather exposure. So you might have some more effects from being in the cold or from being in differing temperatures. California, not so much. Which is probably where the majority of these listeners are, but nonetheless, the most important is that with that sun being higher in the sky, you're getting more exposure.

0:06:17.4 CD: The reverse of that, I'll just contradict myself for a minute, is if you live in San Francisco, it's probably more important to cover up in the winter because you're gonna have some more fog in the summer. Of course, rays still make it through fog, but you're still gonna get some exposure to the sun there. And then just again, the importance of hydration.

0:06:36.1 KK: Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's... You talked about the moisturising part of it, but also drinking water to keep hydrated and make sure that our skin... And we all have different types of skins, whether it's really dry, flaky, whatever, but that... I think it goes unsaid. Like...

0:06:53.6 CD: Exactly.

0:06:54.1 KK: You need a good hydration. How should summer skin care be approached for different activities? I know we talked about the climates, but what's the difference? What there might be for those who work outside versus all that work inside during the day.

0:07:08.4 CD: Yeah, so with inside, probably one of the most important things to understand is that there's actually some damaging rays that come off of computer screens that has become... It's a blue light effect essentially. And so mineral sunscreens have a higher ability to protect against blue light. And particularly with iron oxides in there... Zinc, titanium and iron oxides. And then with outdoor, the most important that I think for people to consider is just to know if you are going to be either sweating or exposed to water. Because obviously sunscreen that's not water-resistant will wash off. And so having a water-resistant sunscreen is probably the most important for whether you're running or out doing a water activity. And then also for people to not forget to protect the under side of their chins and their ears and hands where you'll get reflective light off of water as well.

0:08:04.7 KK: You mentioned that in the beginning about even the backs of our hands, and I think... Yeah, maybe just in general, even at the beginning of COVID, we were taught how to really efficiently wash our hands and how long. But maybe now it takes... Is a good time to really... You just mentioned the backs of our ears, onto... Things... Places we don't really think about, but... That are exposed to the sun... Rather than just our noses and whatnot. So I guess most people think of sunscreens when summer skincare is brought up, but are there other products that will do well for summer besides sunscreens?

0:08:43.0 CD: In our industry, interestingly enough, it's when people use deodorant more often. Not that that's a health-related issue, but I think it's a funny social comment. It's interesting. And, otherwise, back to the moisturising. It's really good to use a lotion in there with good whole oils, organic ingredients are really important as well.

0:09:06.0 KK: You know what, and can you touch back on the deodorant because, again, it's just interesting. I think we're learning more as people are really accepting an organic lifestyle and healthy. And what's the difference between organic and then just what you buy off the shelf in the store, and why is that good or bad?

0:09:24.0 CD: Yeah, the most important thing to avoid in deodorants is aluminum. And aluminum can actually be an active ingredient in deodorants. But aluminum is not meant to be micronised and then spread into the most sensitive area of our body, which is the lymph nodes, which absorbs. So I think that's the most important thing. With deodorants also, propylene glycol is a petroleum-based gliding agent that's often in deodorants. So it's good to avoid that as well. And then... Yeah, something that you can try it out and obviously the scent is really different.

0:10:02.8 CD: That's something that probably people will notice the most with natural deodorants is that many of them are scented with essential oils. And essential oils will have a different relationship with each person's skin biome and the way that its scent has a smell. So it's not like you can test it in the store. So you kinda gotta just try it out and see what you think. But going with a scent that you generally like the smell of and then seeing how it goes with... Responds with your body is a good way to go there.

0:10:32.7 KK: It's funny 'cause I... Oh... I don't know, a couple of years ago, I switched over and I buy organic deodorant. And I love the smell. I smell it during the day, and I'm like, "Oh, it's very pleasant." And I think, "Gosh, I think everybody should just wipe out that aluminum and go organic." Whatever, that's my...

0:10:50.5 CD: They say it actually takes three months or so to actually detoxify from using a deodorant 'cause your body's just... Creates a coating and doesn't have that natural respiration through the skin that it needs to.

0:11:04.2 KK: Interesting.

0:11:04.9 CD: So that's something for people to note as well. There might be either an odd reaction or an odd connectivity to the scent after trying a new one, especially after trying a new one with clean ingredients.

0:11:14.7 KK: Wow.

0:11:15.4 CD: So that's an important thing for people to know. To just be patient and give it time.

0:11:20.4 KK: Well, and then you think about... And again, maybe going off a little topic here, but with the aluminum, all the metals that we're being exposed to... And that can't be good. That... Right?

0:11:29.7 CD: Yeah. Yeah.

0:11:32.6 KK: Wow.

0:11:33.7 CD: And especially under something that we have the ability to control, right?

0:11:36.9 KK: Exactly.

0:11:38.1 CD: That's where we can minimise it.

0:11:40.6 KK: So thanks for bringing that up. What importance do herbal and medicinal plants-based ingredients play in summer skincare products, and why are they important?

0:11:52.4 CD: Well, probably the biggest role that some of them play are just to be antioxidants. So they give skin the power to fight off free radicals on their own. So some that we use are green tea extract, rose-hip oil, buriti oil, are just some examples of oils and extracts that we use that are super high in antioxidants and really just giving the skin the opportunity to have a boost against free radicals.

0:12:20.4 CD: Which would be cancer causing, right? So that's just giving them power to be strong and rejuvenate within themselves. We also use Calendula in all of our products. And Calendula is an incredible medicinal herb that helps rejuvenate healthy skin tissue. It's great in almost any product. I've never heard of anyone having a bad reaction to it. It's just a gentle, beautiful medicinal plant.

0:12:44.6 KK: I love that. I mean, it has so many purposes and going clean like that and Calendula. Thank you. What are some ingredients in the SPF products that buyers and customers should look for and that will benefit themselves and the environment? So you mentioned what not to... Or have the aluminum... We wanna get rid of that. But what are some of the ingredients for the sunscreen SPF that we should be looking for?

0:13:09.8 CD: Yeah. In particular, it's really basic. Sunscreen is a federally... It's an over-the-counter federally regulated product. Meaning that it's regulated by the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration. And so, they actually require testing. And then when that testing is completed, that's when you start to see drug facts on the back of a product and you'll see the active ingredients and then the other ingredients.

0:13:36.8 CD: So speaking very specifically to the active ingredients, the most important thing that people can look for is non-nano zinc oxide. Zinc oxide is an inert mineral, and it is incredibly effective against damaging sun rays. And it's the safest sunscreen out there. Secondarily, another one would be titanium dioxide. It's also... If it can be found non-nano as well. Nano means that it's basically just crushed down to tiny, tiny little particles, and there's a potential concern that those particles could cross the bloodstream, blood-brain area and kinda be absorbed into the skin.

0:14:19.0 CD: And I would say it's just unknown what the impacts of that are. So that's a very... Almost technical distinction, but it's important. All you need to know is non-nano zinc oxide, non-nano titanium dioxide in the active ingredient section of a sunscreen and nothing else in that section.

0:14:38.0 KK: And those would probably fall right at the beginning. Right, at the top there, if it's an active...

0:14:40.5 CD: Right at the top. Right at the top...

0:14:43.1 KK: Yeah.

0:14:43.5 CD: Yeah.

0:14:45.4 KK: Wow. Wow. Great. That's great advice. This is so interesting, Caroline. We have to take a quick break, so stay with us and we'll be right back. More in just a moment.

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0:14:53.3 KK: Welcome back to the Mother's Market podcast. And we wanna remind you that if you missed any portion of today's show, you can find us on iTunes by searching Mother's Market, or download the show from our website, www.mothersmarket.com. Click the link for podcast and listen to past shows. Plus download our Healthy Recipes and money savings coupons, all available at www.mothersmarket.com.

0:15:14.7 KK: And now back to our interview with All Good Founder CEO Caroline Duell. And we're talking about keeping our skin healthy and safe during this summer. So Caroline, you've been really answering some very interesting questions and I appreciate this. We just talked about what are the good ingredients to look for. What are the ingredients in SPF products that buyers and customers should look out for that may be bad?

0:15:39.6 CD: So in the active ingredients section, all of the chemical sunscreens are to be avoided. And I'll say them out here, people may or may not remember them, but they're about eight that are most commonly used. And most of them have been determined to actually cause cancer rather than protect our skins against it, which is a huge irony. But they are oxybenzone, octinoxate, which can also be written as methoxycinnamte. Octocrylene, PABA, enzacamene, octisalate, homosalate, avobenzone.

0:16:12.6 CD: So we call those the awful eight. And they are not what you want. They have a huge level... High level of toxicity for the skin and as well as for water systems. So, they're absolutely to be avoided in anywhere near... If there's somebody diving on a reef or whatnot. But ironically, some of the damage in coral has actually come from effluent. So it goes down the drain systems and then out into the ocean as well. So just generally to be avoided.

0:16:47.6 KK: You know, and that's a really good point too you just brought up. And we were talking about for ourselves, but also for the environment. And we talk about not to bring plastics in the ocean, but literally it's killing the coral. And what else? Fish, what is it doing with all of that sunscreen in concentrated areas?

0:17:04.9 CD: Exactly. Yeah, oxybenzone in particular was determined to be toxic at 62 parts per trillion, and the visual example of that is one drop of water in six and a half Olympic sized swimming pools.

0:17:18.0 KK: Wow.

0:17:18.9 CD: So it's pretty serious. And it's interesting, it's really... I think sunscreen's really been commoditised and just as something that we've been told, almost like the milk campaign. Drink milk. There's like... There are a lot of ways that you can actually have healthy bones and safely engage with your life and you can get calcium without drinking milk. Well, sunscreen was just kind of across the board, "Wear sunscreen." It was a huge campaign. And I don't know, it just... It makes me sad to see that since the use of sunscreen in this country has increased, so has skin cancer. And skin cancer is the fastest growing cancer.

0:17:57.8 CD: And so, I just... I'm like, I don't even know... We sell it obviously as a brand, but on a personal level, I just... The more and more I learn about the science of it, the more I feel passionate about sharing the importance of people using mineral sunscreen and avoiding chemical sunscreen.

0:18:14.6 KK: You know what, we appreciate you coming on and screaming from the top of the mountain on that because it is again, really relevant right now, particularly, because a lot has come out in the news... And then you talk about specific reaction. So we don't see cancer happening. We maybe see some reactions... Skin reactions from PABA or whatever else... Allergic, but skin cancer, that's just... Yeah, you don't wanna mess with that. I have a question for you about...

0:18:42.6 CD: That's right.

0:18:43.3 KK: We're kind of going back a little bit on vitamin D. And everybody's different, everybody's different sizes, but could you... Is there kind of a goal post on how much vitamin D we should be taking?

0:18:52.5 CD: I do highly recommend people to get tested and then work with their either nutritionists or naturopath or doctor on it 'cause that's certainly not where I come from. But I can share my own personal experience was that I did test and I tested low for vitamin D. My doctor recommended that I take 15,000 IU's a day, which I was able to find a capsule that had 5000 per, so I just take three of those a day. And I think just a general start for people is somewhere between 1000 and 5000 and then really testing before and after.

0:19:21.9 CD: I watched my vitamin D levels go skyrocket after using it to a good level, to the safe level. And interestingly enough, my dermatologist was very clear that lack of... Low vitamin D is one of the biggest causes of surface skin cancer. So basal cell, squamous cell, actinic keratosis are all concerns with low vitamin D. And I'll take it one little step deeper in this. I actually learned that I also lack the gene to assimilate vitamin D. So I personally cannot get vitamin D from the sun.

0:19:58.5 KK: Interesting.

0:20:01.1 CD: So that's where a lot of people get vitamin D, right. Is you're like, you wanna expose yourself to the sun. I happen genetically to not have that ability, so I have to take it. And so that's another good example of everybody being completely, individually different and needing to know what's going on with their own body.

0:20:18.0 KK: And that... Again, another great point. You spend so much time outdoors, it must have come as a little bit of a shock to you that you weren't able to produce that. Because here you are...

0:20:26.6 CD: Correct.

0:20:27.0 KK: You're in your farm and you're outside and all. So blood tests, is that how you test for vitamin D?

0:20:34.7 CD: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can get a script from a primary doctor or a naturopath.

0:20:37.9 KK: Okay. That was interesting. Let's go back now to how mineral sunscreens work. I know we've talked about it a little bit, but let's talk through those ingredients and how really does it work?

0:20:50.9 CD: Sure. So the two ways sunscreens work are either by absorption and dispersion or reflection. So mineral sunscreens work by reflecting most of the rays off the top of the skin. There's a tiny bit of absorption as well, but it just gets... It doesn't go very deep. Primarily by reflection... And then the differing way that chemical sunscreens work is that they absorb the UV rays into the skin and then disperse them as heat throughout the skin. Very different action altogether.

0:21:25.9 CD: And that's one of the reasons why mineral sunscreens are also thicker when you put them on. Sometimes you can see them. Like, we make ones that are tinted, so it basically takes that little white tinge off, and helps it blend into the skin a little bit better. But that's one of my missions too, is like... It's okay to have a little bit of streak to show that you're wearing sunscreen because, I think, we've been trained as consumers to just make sure that nothing appears at all. And that's one of the concerns is for people to get used to that, but then actually be damaging their skin by trying that style.

0:22:01.9 KK: I like it. I think I see a whole new media campaign for, "You've got sunscreen?" Right?

0:22:05.8 CD: Yeah, exactly.

0:22:07.6 KK: Let's do it. Interesting. So we talked a little bit about this too, about how the mineral sunscreens are better for the environment. And we talked about what it's doing to the environment, but how... Do mineral sunscreens help the environment?

0:22:24.8 CD: Well, I think it's more about avoiding the toxins. So that's the biggest piece of it. And our bodies are 70 or more percent water, so it's really important to treat our body as a water ecosystem in itself. So avoiding the toxins and avoiding the toxicity is really about the most important that we can do.

0:22:46.3 KK: Right. So this leads me into the reef-friendly campaign. So what does that mean, and who's involved in this reef-friendly campaign?

0:22:54.9 CD: Well, the concept is basically that we've seen a decline in the coral reef habitat and coral reefs throughout the world. And there are a number of reasons for that. At first, I felt pretty negative that there could be any potential positive effect from avoiding sunscreens on coral reefs because you have climate change, you have ocean acidification and you have the warming of the waters, and so many different things that are impacting reefs. But the truth be told, when the reefs are not affected by either sewage runoff, agricultural runoff, or sunscreen, they have identified places where the reefs can thrive.

0:23:37.9 CD: So basically they have the ability to adapt to all of the changing of the climate and the changing of the water, but they don't have that ability to adapt when they're blanketed with chemicals. So that's the general concept of it. And I think anybody in reef science has been a part of the movement. Sunscreen companies started to jump on board in the last handful of years and really raise awareness around it.

0:24:01.8 CD: Hawaii passed legislation to ban two of the most commonly used active sunscreen ingredients, oxybenzone and octinoxate. And that bill went into effect this January. So that banned the sale of those two active ingredients. And we actually started a... Well, it's just a council of companies called the Safe Sunscreen Council. So people can go to safesunscreencouncil.org and learn much of the science behind all of this. And be sent resources or learn resources on how to find sunscreens that are reef-friendly.

0:24:41.0 KK: Wow, again, the education behind it. And that's really what it is, the knowledge of knowing how we can help turn things around for the better.

0:24:51.2 CD: That's right.

0:24:52.4 KK: What can buyers do to look for UVA and UVB-protecting sun-care products? And what are the differences there as well?

0:25:00.4 CD: Sure. So most important is on the front for it to say broad spectrum protection. That means that it's protecting from many of the different levels of the spectrums of the sun that are damaging. And the difference between the two is that UVB are the rays that actually burn us when we're out there in the sun.

0:25:17.9 CD: And then the UVA are the ones that affect us long term. So many sunscreens and many of the chemical sunscreens, in particular, are good at protecting for UVB. So you wouldn't see the sunburn right away, but what you don't know is that those rays are in there, that the way that it affects the skin and the cell damage over a long period of time is still happening. So a broad spectrum protection, UVA, UVB on the front panel is what people look for.

0:25:48.4 KK: Okay, thank you. That's interesting, too. I'm gonna start looking at everything I have in my cabinet here... Start reading it out.

0:25:55.7 CD: That's right.

0:25:58.0 KK: How and when should sunscreens be applied to our body? I've been wanting to ask you this, too. And then that is along with the other products that we're already doing for skincare or using. And should we moisturise first and then apply sunscreen? And how often even if it says it's water-resistant?

0:26:15.6 CD: Yeah. So basically, you can moisturise before, it's fine. If you have a super dry skin. I think it's good to test a product. So if somebody has... If you have a zinc oxide-based sunscreen, some of them feel more moisturising than others. If it feels really drying, it's okay to moisturise before. And then within an hour before being in the sun. And then reapply every two hours. And then if you're in the water, using a water-resistant sunscreen and then reapply every... It's either 40-minute water-resistant or 80-minute water-resistant and just follow the instructions on the front panel.

0:26:55.7 CD: It's one or the other. So it's either water-resistant or very water-resistant. And then if you're doing a banana sled and a slide on the grass or something, where it's just constantly being taken off, a good time to reapply more often than that... Every half hour or so. And then another thing to do is just... Once again, in the Northern Hemisphere here, between the hours of 10:00 AM and 2:00 PM is when the sun is the strongest in the summer. So those are times when you can either cover up or take breaks and stuff like that.

0:27:27.0 KK: And should we use a different sunscreen for our face than we do for our bodies?

0:27:31.1 CD: It's not necessary. I think for the face it's just most important for what feels good on the face. And then... Yeah, they can be interchangeable as well.

0:27:44.5 KK: Okay.

0:27:45.5 CD: I personally use the SPF 50 on my face when I'm in the water. So that's the most important.

0:27:50.6 KK: Okay, and let me ask a new question, too. Do we need any protection for our eyes?

0:27:58.2 CD: Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, wearing sunglasses is a great idea in the sun. You can actually get pretty bad sun damage in your eyes from reflection either on snow or on water.

0:28:10.0 KK: Yeah... Snow, too. Yeah, that's a good point. Specific type of glasses... Are we looking for that protection, would it say on the glasses?

0:28:23.3 CD: Yeah, I think polarised glasses and UV protection glasses, yeah. They'll generally say.

0:28:26.4 KK: Okay, great. Good, well, great information. We really appreciate your time, some great advice. And thanks for your knowledge. We look forward to having you on again in the future. And to check out more information on the website, it's allgoodproducts.com. And thank you, Caroline. We appreciate your time today.

0:28:45.3 CD: Thank you so much. And thanks to Mother's Market. I so appreciate everything they do.

0:28:49.9 KK: Excellent.

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0:28:52.7 KK: If you wanna learn more health information check out www.mothersmarket.com. Get delicious recipes and health guidelines to keep your body in great shape. Thanks for listening to the Mother's Market podcast and for shopping at Mother's Market.

0:29:07.0 S1: The advice and informational content does not necessarily represent the views of Mother's Market and Kitchen. Mother's recommends consulting your health professional for your personal medical condition.