00:00 Speaker 1: The advice and informational content does not necessarily represent the views of Mother's Market & Kitchen. Mother's recommends consulting your health professional for your personal medical condition.

00:12 Kimberly King: Hello, I'm Kimberly King, and welcome to the Mother's Market podcast. A show dedicated to the truth, beauty and goodness of the human condition. On today's show. Summer time is here, and it's always a good time to watch what we eat and get outside and exercise. Diet trends come and go, but the Keto diet has been a very popular diet these past couple of years. Learn how you can do Keto and stay healthy as the weather heats up. Later, we'll tell you what's going on around town. But first up, Katie Chin is an award-winning cookbook author, television chef, blogger and US Ambassador to Women's Entrepreneurship Day. Katie co-hosted the national PBS cooking series, Double Happiness, in conjunction with her mother and together, they wrote everyday Chinese cooking. On her own, Katie wrote the book, "300 Best Rice Cooker Recipes." And most recently, the award-winning best sellers "Everyday Thai Cooking" and her latest cookbook, "Everyday Chinese Cookbook: 101 Delicious Recipes from My Mother's Kitchen." I love it. And we welcome her to the Mother's Market podcast. Katie, how are you?

01:14 Katie Chin: I'm great. Thanks so much for having me.

01:17 KK: It's great having you here. I can't wait to dig in. So why don't you fill in our audience a little bit on your mission and your work before we get to today's show.

01:26 KC: Excellent. Well, my mother was a very famous chef and restauranteur, she passed away almost 10 years ago. But she was really a master at demystifying Asian cuisine and making it accessible to the everyday home cook. So I hope to carry her torch and do the same thing.

01:42 KK: Oh, I love it.

01:44 KC: And really teach people how easy it is to replicate their favorite restaurant dishes whether they be Thai, Japanese, Korean, or Chinese, in their own homes. But my next cookbook is coming out spring 2021, which will be infused with global flavors.

01:58 KK: How wonderful. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. And today, actually, we're specifically talking about the Keto diet, and that's been a diet trend for the past couple of years, so we're excited to get the latest information. And I can't wait to discuss your cookbooks and everything else with you. But what can you eat on the Keto diet?

02:17 KC: Well, the Keto diet is definitely trendy. A lot of celebrities are doing it. Halle Berry is definitely known for it, she's a diabetic. And what makes this diet, in particular, so unique is that it's very, very high in fat. It's basically a high-fat diet, moderate protein and very low carbohydrates. So what can you eat? Well, first, let's talk about some of the no-nos. The no-nos basically include grains, pasta, rice, vegetables that grow underground 'cause they have too much starch and carbohydrates. Most fruits, juices and sweets, which you can eat are a lot of very high fat, we stress healthy high-fat foods.

03:02 KK: Like avocado?

03:02 KC: Correct. Did you know that avocados are actually a fruit?

03:04 KK: Yeah, because it has a seed.

03:07 KC: Right, right, right, exactly.

03:07 KK: That's right.

03:09 KC: Butters, oils, healthy fish, salmon is an excellent choice, mackerel. You can eat stakes, sausage, beef, pepperoni. The more vegetables, the better, of course. And you can eat some berries because they are very low in carbohydrates. For example, a half a cup of blueberries is approximately about four grams of carbohydrates.

03:32 KK: And so, that's no sugar, obviously, with this as well.

03:35 KC: Correct.

03:35 KK: But not might kind of satisfy your appetite with having some berries.

03:39 KC: That's right. So yes, no sugar. And also, they also recommend no milk because it has too many carbohydrates, but you could maybe put a splash of milk in your coffee, but heavy cream is okay.

03:53 KK: Okay. And this is a quick question. Men versus women, I don't know, you might be talking about that later on, but is there a percentage of who does better on Keto?

04:03 KC: I'm not really sure about that, but I do know that it can sometimes affect menstruation, because eliminating carbs can have an effect on adrenal glands. They can tax the adrenal glands leading to a hormonal imbalance. Therefore, some women should maybe consume a bit more carbohydrates than men in this diet.

04:27 KK: So how do we start the Keto diet?

04:28 KC: Well, essentially, you should really strive for about 70 to 75% high fat, 20 to 25% protein, so moderate protein, and just five to 10% carbohydrates. Now, a lot of people are shy away from the high fat concept, and in order to really achieve a state of ketosis, you really need to be eating a lot of high-fat foods, so you shouldn't shy away from that. You should be eating bacon and you should be cooking with butter. But also definitely balance that out with some healthier choices, like fresh fish and lots of, lots and lots of vegetables. Other things to bear in mind though, when you start the Keto diet, you should try not to be stressed out because when you're stressed out, your body produces cortisol, and that can affect whether or not you get into ketosis. Another thing is to drink a lot of water 'cause you need to stay hydrated, because being on the Keto diet is a diuretic. So you definitely need to be drinking lots of water and getting your electrolytes.

05:30 KK: So I'm really interested, too, about... We're gonna talk about that when you get to a ketosis state. So let me back up though a second. You've also talked about butter. Is there a type of butter that's specific to Keto that you recommend?

05:46 KC: I think that as long as it's natural butter, you're fine.

05:50 KK: Okay. Can you drink alcohol on the Keto diet?

05:54 KC: You actually can drink a limited amount of alcohol, and they recommend spirits over wine and beer, because spirits like rum, vodka, gin, whiskey have zero carbohydrates. Whereas, wine and beer have carbohydrates, but they're empty carbohydrates 'cause there's no nutrients. So skip the wine and beer and go for your vodka with soda, but you'll probably have to maybe forgo another serving of carbs earlier in the day if you know you're gonna be imbibing later that night.

06:22 KK: Okay, great. Is it safe, the Keto diet?

06:27 KC: Not a lot of long-term studies have been done, but most nutritionists seem to concur that doing it for a short period of time poses no health risks. Again, it depends on your body. When you start any diet, you should really consult your doctor. If you have a history of heart disease or high cholesterol, you may wanna reconsider it because you're putting so much high fat into your body. But again, it has to do with the fact that it's a short-term solution.

06:54 KK: And that's true, I think, with anything. You think about it in a form of a season. Not everything's gonna last forever, but maybe if you adopt some of those concepts into your lifestyle.

07:02 KC: Exactly, exactly.

07:06 KK: So let's back up, what is the ketosis? And we'd say, is it bad? But how do you get to ketosis?

07:11 KC: We know it's interesting 'cause it was originally designed as a therapeutic diet for epileptics to avoid seizures. But they don't really know why it halts seizures, but it's effective. But the state of ketosis basically, your body naturally burns carbohydrates as its preferred fuel source. In ketosis, your body enters a metabolic state where it's burning fat. The fat is broken into ketone bodies, and those ketone bodies become energy. So it's almost like you're tricking your body into starvation, and it starts burning your fat versus glucose and carbohydrates.

07:51 KK: And so, will we feel that when we've hit ketosis? Is that something that you'll know off the bat?

07:56 KC: I don't think it's like, "I'm in ketosis."

[laughter]

08:00 KC: I think you'll know that you're in the induction phase that you're feeling the effects, 'cause many times it can mimic having the flu. Because your energy, when you're driving your energy from ketone bodies versus glucose, which is what your body is used to, you can feel sluggish and tired and fatigued, but that usually goes away after about two weeks.

08:24 KK: Okay, alright. That's good to know. And how many carbs do you get when you're on the Keto diet?

08:28 KC: Yeah, so it's about you're supposed to strive for about 5-10% of all your calories, which translates into about 20-50 grams a day.

08:41 KK: And we talked a little bit, I think, in the beginning you were saying something like with the carbs, no rice, no grains, no pasta. But what do carbs look like on the Keto diet?

08:49 KC: Well, carbs from the Keto diet look like alcohol. I'm just kidding.

[laughter]

08:58 KC: From protein.

09:00 KK: Okay.

09:00 KC: Additionally, from vegetables. And again, vegetables that are above ground. Some of the fruits that we talked about. The sources of protein like fish and beef. You can have some chicken and plant-based proteins as well. It's important not to eat too many proteins 'cause it might kick you out of your ketosis state.

09:20 KK: Oh, okay. I haven't heard that. And I'm sure this varies for everybody, men, women, and just our body types. But is there an average amount of weight that you can lose on the Keto diet?

09:30 KC: There are a lot of at anecdotal stories that talk about drastic weight loss. But there was a study done in February 2017 in a metabolic publication that stated, on average, you can expect to lose about four pounds after being on the diet about six weeks.

09:52 KK: Wow, okay. That's good, that's good incentive.

09:55 KC: Yeah.

09:56 KK: Okay, we talked a little bit about berries for fruit. Are there any other... Is that the only kind of fruit that is suggested?

10:03 KC: The only other fruit that is allowed, like we discussed earlier, are avocados.

10:09 KK: Oh, yeah.

10:09 KC: Also considered a fruit, along with coconuts.

10:11 KK: Oh, and coconuts.

10:13 KC: But otherwise, you really gotta stick to the berries. But you know it's so delicious, you can have fresh berries with heavy cream every night for dessert, which is pretty delicious.

10:24 KK: That sounds really good right now. [chuckle]

10:24 KC: Yeah, I know.

10:26 KK: Jeez Chef Katie.

[laughter]

10:28 KK: So what are the best snacks to eat? And when I ask you that too, are we eating three courses or are we snacking all the way through? What does that look like?

10:38 KC: I think you need just need to really listen to your body.

10:41 KK: Okay.

10:42 KC: So you should be eating balanced meals, but if you feel hungry, go ahead and snack as long as you're sort of adhering to the percentage breakdown. Nuts are an excellent choice.

10:52 KK: I was just gonna say that, yeah.

10:53 KC: 'Cause they're a great source of protein, they are natural, good for your fats. Cashews tend to have a lot of carbohydrates, so they don't recommend. Cashew seeds are another delicious option, as well as, beef jerky. Avocados would be great. So those are the main snacks that most of my friends that are on the Keto diet tend to enjoy.

11:21 KK: What about a hard boiled egg? Does that fit?

11:24 KC: Yes, eggs are also a great solution because they're a healthy protein.

11:29 KK: Okay. With the yolk and all.

11:31 KC: Correct.

11:32 KK: Okay, got it.

11:33 KC: And you can slutter those eggs in butter, high-fat cheese.

11:38 KK: It goes against everything to loose weight.

11:40 KC: Yes, it seems so wrong, but it's actually right on this diet.

11:44 KK: That's great. My brother just did the Keto diet, and it's made a big difference. And I'm so... This is great.

11:50 KC: Oh, that's great.

11:50 KK: Yeah. So this is great information, and we have to take a quick break. We're gonna be right back in just a minute. Don't go away.

12:00 KK: Why not shop online and let mothers have your order ready for you when you get to the store? Go online to www.mothersmarket.com and place your order today.

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12:12 KK: And now back to our interview with Chef Katie Chin, and we were talking about the Keto diet. We have been talking about, you mentioned the flu, so that's called the Keto flu.

12:23 KC: Right.

12:24 KK: What is that about? Should we be concerned about since we're in flu season, right?

12:27 KC: It's not actually the flu, catching the flu. It's just that sometimes, your body reacts as if it has the flu. It feels sluggish, it feels tired. You might feel a little confused, you might feel dizzy. Because of the lack of energy. Again, because your body is used to using carbohydrates that have been broken down as the energy source. So when you know your body switches to this fat burning mode, again your body thinks it's starving, but the energy derived from the ketones that are created, that are turned into an energy source, you don't feel as much energy, at least in the beginning. It takes a couple of weeks for your body to adjust.

13:10 KK: So it's really like a one-time feeling until your body adjusts as you say at least.

13:14 KC: Absolutely.

13:15 KK: Okay.

13:15 KC: And I think it also can do with the fact that people are... They just can't believe they get to eat all this fats, so you know, they're maybe not eating as much as they should. But I think once they get on track with that, they'll feel better.

13:28 KK: Oh, that's interesting. So will the keto diet give... Does it cause kidney stones?

13:34 KC: You know what, there's a possibility that it could cause kidney stones. Anytime you go on a very, very low carbohydrate diet, high-protein diet, there's a risk of getting kidney stones, especially if you're not drinking a lot of water. But this particular diet is moderately protein, it's not high-high protein. I think the key is, if you have a history of kidney stones in your family, or you do personally, you should definitely discuss it with your doctor before you start the diet.

14:06 KK: Yeah, and that's really good advice, it's sound. You've mentioned coming in and out of the diet earlier on the first segment. So is there an optimal schedule for the keto diet?

14:17 KC: Well, from what I've read and what I understand is the key is to not stay in the diet too long.

14:23 KK: Okay.

14:24 KC: I think the maximum amount of time you should stay on the keto diet is about 12 weeks. If you stay on the diet longer than that, you run the risk of high cholesterol and particularly heart disease, especially if you are a candidate for heart disease.

14:38 KK: Okay, that's really good advice. And then when you come off what does your diet look like?

14:45 KC: When you come off any diet you shouldn't go back to your ways.

14:50 KK: Like, "I can have all the sugar."

14:53 KC: It's like a rebound boyfriend.

[laughter]

14:53 KC: You know it's wrong.

14:54 KK: Right.

14:54 KC: You know it's bad. However.

14:56 KK: Right.

14:57 KC: I think you should gradually ease into incorporating some complex carbohydrates back into your diet, like grains, like brown rice. Incorporating some additional fruits into your diet, eating lean protein, of course, continuing on that track. But then lowering the fat intake.

15:19 KK: Which is great too, and you know I'd be scared. Your body would probably feel that though, all of a sudden if you're having... Introducing the complex carbs back in, does your body instantly go, "Oh wait, I haven't had this in 12 weeks."

15:31 KC: Yeah, I think, again, it's all about gradually entering them back into your diet in a healthy way, so that you're just you know on a well balanced, healthy diet. I think a lot of people do keto and Paleo, and those types of diets to just like jump-start, lose a few pounds, feel good again, and then just get back on a track with a reasonable, balanced healthy diet.

15:53 KK: And I think that was kind of my next question. So you'll know kind of when to start up again when your body tells you like, "Well, that was a good jump-start. I'm off now, let me go back on again." Or is there a...

16:03 KC: Right. I mean, I think it's a very personal journey that you go on on a keto diet, cause some people stay on it the full 12 weeks. Some people might after six to eight weeks go, "You know what? I just lost two pounds, I feel awesome. I think I'm just gonna go back to a well balanced diet and see if I can maintain the weight loss."

16:22 KK: Okay, that's good. Earlier we talked about specifically women doing the keto, and as you said it might affect our periods, menstrual cycles, hormone levels. Is there anything else that women should be concerned about?

16:38 KC: I think it's mainly the fact that it may cause a hormonal imbalance. So in addition to irregular or missed periods, we all know as women, what an irregular hormonal phase feels like. It doesn't feel great.

16:51 KK: Right. [chuckle]

16:52 KC: So again listen to your body and then maybe increase your intake a bit. So you're allowed 20 to 50 grams. So maybe as a woman, if you're feeling off balance, you can go up to the full 50 grams.

17:05 KK: Okay. And then what about, is the keto diet safe for kids?

17:08 KC: No, it is not recommended for kids. Kids really need carbohydrates for their well-being, their personal, professional... Not professional, kids aren't professional, I'm sorry.

[laughter]

17:20 KK: Some of them are.

17:22 KC: Their emotional, academic development. So it is not recommended.

17:27 KK: What about pregnant women?

17:31 KC: Also there hasn't been a lot of research done in this area, but it is also not recommended for pregnant women, because the energy source for the fetus in a woman's womb is glucose. And when you reduce carbohydrate intake dramatically, the glucose level goes down dramatically. So babies really need glucose as a form of energy to thrive, to grow and be a healthy baby.

17:57 KK: So that's good advice right there. And you know pregnant women, we're gonna gain weight anyway, right?

18:03 KC: Well, exactly, exactly.

18:03 KK: We shouldn't be thinking about going on a diet.

18:06 KC: Eat the cupcake, life is short, you know what I mean?

18:09 KK: That's the time not to do it.

18:11 KC: Exactly.

18:11 KK: So when people talk about fasting when they're on a keto diet, will we be hungry a lot?

18:17 KC: I think you can definitely be satiated, because you get to eat quite a bit of fat, which is quite satiating, as well as protein.

18:25 KK: Yeah, it just goes against the norm. So we haven't been eating all this fat and all of a sudden, yeah.

18:30 KC: I think it's just a matter of making the switch in your brain that it's okay. I'm sure that if you're reluctant, you will be very hungry. But like any diet, this one's you know relatively extreme compared to some other diets. You just have to really follow the guidelines.

18:47 KK: So kinda leading into my next question, compared to other diets, how does a keto diet compare to your experiences and then also your outcome?

19:00 KC: You know, I think that again a lot of this is anecdotal, but the general feeling is that you can lose weight pretty quickly compared to some other diets. And also you don't feel as deprived because you get to eat things that you never in a million years thought you'd be able to eat on a diet like bacon, all within reason.

19:20 KK: Everything in moderation. What about, so Atkins which I think is heavy in protein, if I'm not mistaken?

19:27 KC: They're very similar but Atkins is heavier in protein and allows you a bit more carbohydrates. But again, I think that key difference that people feel is that you lose weight more quickly.

19:38 KK: And what about Mediterranean?

19:41 KC: Mediterranean diet. That's a very balanced diet but it definitely allows you more complex carbohydrates and more lean proteins, fish, lean chicken, not heavy steaks and sausages and bacon.

20:02 KK: You mentioned this a little bit, but does the Keto diet affect our cholesterol level?

20:08 KC: It's interesting, when you lose weight your body tends to have improved lipid levels, which is good. However, again, if you stay on the diet too long, you run the risk of high cholesterol, you run the risk of heart disease, especially if you're already a candidate. If you are a candidate for heart disease, you definitely have to go to the doctor if you're gonna start this diet. Not a lot of conclusive research, again, in this area, but it's all about short-term versus long-term.

20:41 KK: And how does the Keto diet fit into things through cooking? And I know you've written a couple of cookbooks, so let's take the Asian plate or meals, what does that look like in the Keto world?

20:54 KC: Well, we know the Asian diet is a rice based diet, so you're gonna have to cut out all rice, but that's okay. And you have to cut out Quinoa too, 'cause although that is not a grain it's a plant, it still has too many carbs. But I think that Asian food is a great resource for Keto diets because of stir-fries. You can easily saute your delicious aromatics like ginger and garlic and onions with your favorite above ground vegetables, remember everything above ground, and make a delicious stir fry. Just throw in some soy sauce and that's a very simple easy meal. And the great thing is you can probably eat as much as... You could probably have four servings of that, 'cause it's healthy.

21:39 KK: Oh, wow because it's mostly the veggies.

21:41 KC: It's mostly veggies exactly. And you can throw in lean proteins as well.

21:46 KK: So when you're balancing your Keto... And I think this happens to a lot of people no matter what diet they're following, once they start to lose the weight, then they become more active. So what about exercise? How does that fit into the Keto lifestyle?

22:00 KC: I think with any healthy lifestyle exercise is key. So it's definitely recommended on the Keto diet.

22:06 KK: Yeah, depending on what you prefer. So I think you mentioned about the percentage of protein, which would be the highest on the Keto, and so how much protein is that?

22:21 KC: Actually, it's 20-25% protein. It's about 0.6 grams of protein for every pound on a human. So if you weighed about 150 pounds that would be about 110 grams of protein a day. So it's less than Atkins but it's enough for you to feel full and satisfied.

22:44 KK: And is the Keto diet, is it beneficial for people with type two diabetes?

22:49 KC: It's interesting because the American Diabetes Association doesn't recommend one diet over another diet. And the research that I've done, some say that it can be very beneficial because it can really maintain good blood sugar levels and can also really maintain glucose levels. On the other hand, other researchers and nutritionists say, it's not good. But I have a close friend that is a diabetic and his doctor said to definitely go on the Keto diet and it has helped him significantly. So again, if you're a diabetic first thing you do is ask your doctor, because I think it's a case-by-case basis as well.

23:31 KK: Yeah, I would imagine that. So what do you think that are the best tasting foods on the Keto diet, and what are some of your favorites?

23:39 KC: Well, I'm a big fan of bacon. [chuckle] So anything bacon but you also don't wanna go crazy eating bacon, and I do love butter even though I grew up in a Chinese Household and we didn't really cook with much butter. So again, it's like giving yourself permission to sort of experiment with all the delicious recipes that are on dietdoctor.com for example. But I just love a really clean piece of salmon. I love to just... You can grill it, you can marinate it as long as you're using okay ingredients. Healthy vegetables, you can eat pretty much all that you want. But my favorite thing is always looking forward to the berries and the cream.

24:19 KK: Oh, that's so... I know I'm still thinking about that, from when you first mentioned that.

24:23 KC: Yeah.

24:24 KK: What about salads, salad dressings, cheese? Can you have cheese on the Keto diet?

24:28 KC: You can have cheese. You wanna steer towards high fat cheeses. The dryer the cheese the less the fat, the creamier the cheese the more the fat.

24:35 KK: So always think cream.

24:36 KC: Exactly.

24:37 KK: Okay.

24:37 KC: Now we know that salad dressings are notoriously filled with sugar. You have to make your own salad dressings or just stick with something pretty simple like oil and vinegar.

24:49 KK: I bet you have some good salad dressings in some of your cookbooks.

24:52 KC: Yes I do, I do. And again, I think that really experimenting with flavors that don't have a lot of sugar, 'cause you can find a lot of great alternatives using bright citrus for example, vinegar citrus and there's substitutes for sugar in the Keto diet.

25:11 KK: Along that same line therefore, what are some other substitutes for some of the carbs that we're not supposed to have or some of the... What did you say, rice and potatoes or the things that we can't have. So what are substitutes in that?

25:28 KC: Well, you can definitely go to Mother's Markets because there are definitely products that are Keto-stamped, that are Zero carbohydrates, but they make it easy for you.

25:43 KK: Yeah.

25:43 KC: Right.

25:44 KK: It's stamped on.

25:44 KC: So you don't have to really have to buy the almond flour to make the fake bread.

25:50 KK: Oh my gosh, right.

25:51 KC: It doesn't have carbohydrates. I just say, go to a store like Mother's Markets, go to the keto-friendly section, because there are a lot of options and alternatives.

26:03 KK: That's great. Can you wanna talk about your next book that you are just... You said 2021 I think, is that right?

26:10 KC: Spring 2021. It's going to be a cookbook infused with global flavors, which I'm so excited about, 'cause I feel like everybody's ready for learning how to easily integrate global flavors into all of their everyday recipes. Whether it's turning a deviled egg into a Nicoise deviled egg, which would be totally fine on the keto diet by the way, 'cause it's eggs and vegetables, right? To putting a Thai spin on a pizza, which would obviously be a no-no. However, why don't you just turn that into a Thai pizza with a cauliflower crust.

26:49 KK: Okay, that's the new trend too right now.

26:51 KC: Yeah, exactly.

26:51 KK: Yeah.

26:51 KC: And I feel like there are so many plant-based options out there, so I included a lot of plant-based options in the cookbook. For example, like a Panang curry meatball using Beyond Beef instead of actual beef. So that's been really fun to experiment with some options like that. Of course, not okay for the keto diet, 'cause you know...

27:12 KK: Yeah, right.

27:13 KC: Or for example, I have a orange chicken except for not chicken, it's actually tofu that's actually flash-fried in cornstarch, with an orange glaze that tastes just like orange chicken. So I think that's gonna be real popular.

27:29 KK: That sounds really good too right now. But with that orange glaze is there a sugar-free option for the orange glaze for a keto?

27:36 KC: I think you could definitely use a sugar substitute and replicate that recipe. So I think I should think about that, creating a series of blog posts specifically adapting some of my recipes and making them keto-friendly.

27:50 KK: What is your blog so that I can get that and get all my new recipes from you?

27:55 KC: It's a chefkatiechin.com.

27:57 KK: Okay, perfect, yeah. In fact, I'm gonna just remind you once again. This has been so fun, thank you.

28:02 KC: Thank you.

28:03 KK: Some great advice and we really appreciate your knowledge and we look forward to having you on again. In the meantime, it is chefkatiechin. C-H-I-N dot com. So we look forward to having you on again for your next visit.

28:15 KC: Thank you so much.

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28:20 KK: If you wanna learn more health information check out Mother's in-store guest speakers at www.mothersmarket.com. All seminars start at 6:30, and please be sure to go online to our events page and reserve your spot. Thanks for listening to the Mother's Market Podcast and for shopping at Mother's Market.

28:39 S1: The advice and informational content does not necessarily represent the views of Mother's Market & Kitchen. Mother's recommends consulting your health professional for your personal medical condition.

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